| Wednesday, June 25, 2008
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| Baba Ramdev - Guru or Fraudster? |
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The notion of an Indian guru brings to mind a romanticized vision of an enlightened, otherworldly being swathed in ocher orange robes and followed by hordes of devotees. It is not a “profession” that we give much credence to in today’s world, especially in the West where the concept of an enlightened being guiding and teaching thousands of followers is often viewed as bizarre and cultish. In the classical Indian view, a guru is an enlightened being who guides others to their own self-realization; a concept that is questioned each time it has entered our Western world. So it’s no surprise that as Indian teacher Baba Ramdev is making headlines as a modern day guru, his claims of healing incurable diseases and foretelling the future are causing some to question his authenticity.
Baba Ramdev asserts that the practices of pranayama and ayurveda can cure health concerns from high blood pressure to HIV. He talks of corruption from the West and claims to foresee major events like an Indian civil war. Though the proclamations seemed far-fetched, yogis for millennia have carried the same beliefs in the powerful healing properties of breath practices. In addition, the Bombay head of equities trading for a leading Western bank shared similar thoughts about an impending civil uprising due to growing inequality. So is this man a serious yoga adept or a just a seasoned yoga practitioner seeking attention? In defense of his claims, the Guru has chosen to use science to back up his health claims. Under the scrutiny of university observation, Baba Ramdev plans to scientifically evaluate his methods of yoga and pranayama in order to substantiate its benefits. Ramdev is not the first yoga guru to submit himself to this type of scientific observation. In 1970, another yoga guru, Swami Rama, participated in experiments at the Menninger Foundation, which included voluntarily stopping his own heart pumping for 17 seconds and affecting his own body temperature by as much as ten degrees. And he received doubt and criticism from people all over the world. The fantastic abilities of yoga adepts can be traced back to the ancient texts. In the Yoga Sutras, Patanjali chronicles numerous physical and mental feats that can be achieved by the accomplished yogi (siddhis), but he is also quick to warn that these feats are not the equivalent to the end goal of yoga, Samadhi, or liberation. A true “guru” is one who removes darkness, a light of wisdom on the path of another. So, regardless of how many cool tricks a person can do, the real judge of a guru is their ability to remove the veil of darkness and illusion in others through right action and wise teaching. If Baba Ramdev is a true guru, it will not be shown in a battery of scientific tests or in his ability to prophesize the future, but in the authenticity of his teachings and his love for his students. What do you think of Baba Ramdev’s claims of healing incurable diseases and foretelling the future? 11 Comments
Its seems that an article appeared in Guardian, and since then many in the west, taking cue from this incomplete baseless and factless article, are questioning Ramdev.
You have gone still further to question if he is fraudster. I wrote and article reviewing Guardian article, and the same almost applies to you. I will repeat it here again - English media in India, is heavily biased. The Pseudo-secularist want to get votes by appeasement. And then there are others who are envious of Ramdev's hard earned success and then others who assume that only the west way is the correct way. So for the above-mentioned reasons the media is heavily biased and involved in spreading FUD too. Do not take baseless articles at their face value - go ask those who have received life when allopathy had no cure for their problem. Go ask those who get tremendous positive inspiration from Ramdev, and were otherwise depressed. But one problem is that such people mostly do not use internet much - and they certainly may not encounter your article. So let me tell you about myself - I am software developer, and 33 years of age. I initially thought that Ramdev has only Yoga/Pranayam to offer - but I was wrong. Since that time I have realized that Ramdev is Gyaani, and has knowledge of Veda, Ayurveda, and Yoga Pranayam. and please do not write baseless article yourself, calling a true guru a fraudster - you loose your credibility by this. Thanks 1
June 29, 2008
Thanks for sharing your personal experience. As you noted, I do not have a personal experience with Ramdev, and was trying not to make a judgement on his abilities or authenticity myself. Only to bring to attention that doubting and testing his healing abilities does not prove or disprove his authenticity as a true guru. My purpose was to say that regardless of his powers, it is his love and commitment to his students that will truly authenticate his status. That is not for me or anyone that does not have experience with Ramdev to judge. It was my hope to open up a discussion that would create a deeper understanding, and I thank you for providing more routes to explore.
Bless 2
June 29, 2008
vikramsjn,
I believe what you experienced when reading Kelly's article was a translation error. The article Kelly wrote seemed to present an argument without judgement in order to develop a dialogue about Ramdev. 3
July 03, 2008
Yes, you both are somewhat correct - I was too irked by the misleading article in Guardian. But I also have objection to use of word Fraudster in the discussion title.
WHAT I SAYING IS: 1. The author of this article, or the person who has started this discussion, hardly knows about Ramdev. Its only through blog posts and news articles that you know Ramdev. As I know the English media, even within India, is anti-Ramdev. They do not publish any news regarding him, they do not mention any good work being done by him. Whereas they do not shy any controversies regarding Ramdev. So these articles do form a proper base to even start a discussion - because anyway the content from these articles has been mentioned in the discussion article. 2. When you do not know about a person, and are depending on hearsay, then its not a good idea to start the discussion where you mention straightaway if he is a fraudster What if I say 'Is the current Pope really a Pope or a Fraudster' - would you not be irked. A title some thing like 'Baba Ramdev - Is he really a true Guru', or 'Baba Ramdev - Are his healing claims true or fake' would have been much better. Even when in normal life when you do not know about a person, you do not straightaway ask if the person is fraudster, you rather check if the person of integrity, are his claims or words of value. 3. This article seems to be initiating a discussion - but it hardly started a discussion. If I had not posted it would have been mostly an article assembled by contents from news articles, claiming to start a discussion, and in the process using word 'Fraudster' for Swami Ramdev. I say this because notice for yourself no one else has posted except you two and me - this is hardly a discussion. TO THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE What I have written above is what all I had in mind when I read the article and now that I have read the two following post after mine. Probably your intention was not negative, but in my opinion the ground work was incomplete. I again object to the use of word Fraudster. 4
July 20, 2008
Correction to last sentence of point 1 in my last post:
So these articles do not form a proper base to even start a discussion - because anyway the content from these articles has been mentioned in the discussion article. 5
July 20, 2008
Dear vikramsjn,
Kelly did a great job on writing about this issue based on the article in the Guardian and from her other research on the subject. She did not claim anywhere in the article to be an expert on Ramdev, and her reporting was objective and did not pass any judgment against him. The title of the post was edited by me to clearly summarize the issue, and as the title ends with a question mark it was not to call him a fraudster but to question the legitimacy and authenticity of his claims. Unfortunately in the West we have had exposure to many unethical and fraudulent gurus, so it is very appropriate for us to examine gurus carefully, especially when they are making such exorbitant claims as Ramdev is. The whole point of this post is that we will soon find out if some of his claims are true or not, and we should hold judgment until the scientific results are in. We do love it when our blog posts generate a discussion, but unfortunately many of them generate little to no discourse. Compared to our other posts, this article has a good deal of discussion posts added to it. 6
July 20, 2008
I was preparing reply to last post of Timothy, when I noticed that link to my blog posts, from my first post here, were removed altogether.
Please tell me why that was done, and should I post links within html tag. 7
July 27, 2008
Reply to Timothy's post (part 1)
Well, I agree that Kelly's reporting was not judgemental, but being incomplete and one-sided it was sending a wrong message. A casual careless common reader could probably take that one aspect in the post to be true - or prominent. As for the Guardian article of Randeep Ramesh, I will again repeat and any careful reader can notice that its judgemental suggestive one-sided, and biased. For me Guardian article is clearly an attempt on the part people like Randeep Ramesh to spread FUD, rumor, misrepresentation. I accept your point that the title ends in question mark hence doesn't really call Ramdev a fraudster. I guess, to some extent I got excited and retaliated. However, I would suggest use of benign wording for a tremendously respected and revered person like Swami Ramdev. This is very true that in west there have been fraudulent gurus. This applies to India as well, may be still more. Its certainly required that a person be examined before he is accepted as a guru. It also seems that your attempt to have discussion has really worked well. If you had not used that Fraudster word I probably would not have involved myself in discussion. I will try to share and will try to clear your all doubts as far as I know. I will also state this before I really start that I have no association with Ramdev or any of his organizations, or Aastha channel. I do not have any information from Aastha or any other organization. What I state in my writing regarding Ramdev is based from what I have learned about him from his programmes on Aastha channel, and articles elsewhere on internet and magazines. Now regarding exhorbitant claims of Ramdev. I have many things to say, and share in this regard, but I will try to limit myself for now, because of lack of time, and for the sake of post. I agree that exhorbitant claims are certainly an issue with Ramdev. He may be correct regarding some of these, and for some he may be incorrect. However he has more than 15 years of experience with him (or may be more). Even before getting Deeksha of Sanyaas, he was Yog Acharya, and was teaching Yog and Kundalini Jaagran. Besides he repeats again and again that one should not just assume what he say, instead one should follow and see for himself. The selective pranayam that he recommends is actually very simple and almost harmless. He always repeats the precautions when asking to do pranayam. And he also repeats that never hold your breath (certain pranayam also involve holding breath). 8
July 27, 2008
Reply to Timothy's post (part 2)
He is also working relentlessly to prove his claims scientifically. The huge Patanjali Yogpeeth, its related organizations, and the wide array of scientific equipments there, and the research work being done there by Ayurvedic and Allopathic doctors and scientests is proof in itself. Probably in short time we will have results regarding his claims. Regarding two of his claims that drinks like Pepsi/Cola are only as good as toilet cleaner, and that Yog helps reduce CD4 count are almost validated by modern medical science. I did not perform a search or research regarding these, but came across following recently: Get kids to junk that junk food, Meditation slows AIDS progression: study. Now this is exactly Ramdev has been saying for years now, actually more than 10 years. The second article also confirms his claim that yog helps improve CD4 count. Let me also mention that he shuns all forms of superstition himself. He is Ayurveda and Vedic expert. And has still more particular expertiese in Yog. He promotes logic reasoning and careful examination. He also maintains transparency by telecasting almost as many programmes as possible on Aastha channel (however he is limited by time sanctioned by Aastha to PYPT programmes). He keeps learning about modern medical science. He is well aware of many modern medical treatments. From him I come to realize that many treatments in allopathy are to suppress problems, or to deal with problems locally or symptomatically - which many times leads to side effects, and may not really resolve the incorrect tendency in the body (which may lead to recurrence of the problem in the patient). Ramdev these days is in US. In his camps he asks those who had benefits to share their experience. Many in these US camps, who shared their experience of benefits from pranayam, are themselves doctors (gynecologists, dentists, gastrologists, urologists). He never shys from discussions with doctors of allopathy. Infact for past 3 years I have been noticing that he organizes discussion with those trained in modern medical science. Main attempt being to bring the Ayurvedic and Allopathic system closer to each other. Recently he was in a meet organized by Chartered Accountants of India. This was also attended by various leading doctors in India. Of these one was leading Asthma expert, and one another was extremely awarded cardiologist. This cardiologist, after Ramdev's presentation, told the chartered accountants and their families there that what Ramdev said in the presentation is 90% correct to his knowledge. And that the rest 10% may be found to be true as the research is done in medical sciences. I will end for now by saying this I have still more to share, but I will leave it for next time. I will state here that I, like many other here in India, suspected Ramdev to be fake years ago. I have known Ramdev since 2003, through Aastha channel. But every year my faith in Ramdev increases. 9
July 27, 2008
In my last post's second para, last sentence had two links, as HTML link tag - but they do not work. Probably HTML links in posts are not allowed.
In my first post there were two links inserted as text that were manually removed by those maintaining this site. So I do not know how to mention other articles through posts on this site. I am posting the HTML links in the last post here as text: 1. http://www.ibnlive.com/news/li...84-17.html 2. http://uk.reuters.com/article/...24?sp=true 10
July 27, 2008
It may not be appropriate to call Ramdev Baba as either ' guru' or a 'fruadster'. He is a loudmouth and claims big achievements through his so called 'Yog'. He is not much educted. In a TV interview he explained that his training in 'yog' is also informal. He did not learn yog from any teacher. He learned 'yog' by reading books. He is self proclaimed 'yogi'. He has got quick publicity through TV channels. For his tall claims of healing through yog he takes support of science and medical reports. His own understanding in science is limited. The less we talk about him its is beter.
Narendra 11
July 31, 2008
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Please consult your health care practitioner before starting a yoga, pranayama or other exercise program.
All contents copyright 2001-2007 Timothy Burgin and Yogabasics.com. All rights reserved. Om shanti peace.
